GWOT: Global War on Tablesaws

"I for one don`t want to go back to the dark ages where I spend a week flattening and preparing material before I actually start to make something. My two cents."

Nobody ever spent a week flattening lumber "in the dark ages" and that’s kinda the point here. That widespread belief inadvertantly supports power tool sales and we haven’t done a good enough job in the press of challenging it.

Adam

I’ll try and fail to keep this concise. This is a list of the points and thoughts that I would use to start my reply, however it would be shaped.

-After selling tools for 3 years, I never, ever, ever had to actually ask the purchaser if they knew how to use it. The only time I refused service was to an elderly gentleman who looked like he was having a hard enough time holding himself up without holding a router. I figured my meddling would help keep him safe. If there is any lawsuit I would stand behind, it would be one where the manufacturers were required by law to send their customers through a tool-specific certification course before handing them the keys to their new device that takes small chunks out of larger chunks… of any material. Hands included.

-After the great London fire, I wonder if people had these same kinds of conversations about using fire?

-My shop-mate’s 16" sliding table Oliver is a woodworking monster. It creates a stiff breeze in regular operation. And it gives me the willies. My SawStop, by contrast, runs quietly, smoothly, and doesn’t seem quite as menacing. So I have a vague feeling that some of the industrial age woodworkers had a different sense of safety. Older tools were enormous, terrifyingly efficient, and I’m convinced left no doubt to their ability to do serious damage. And I have a feeling that they’d strike a similar "caution, but not undue fear" kind of mentality into anyone, where modern tools with their cleaner lines and quieter operation seem safer, and less menacing… as they must, if they’re going to sell.

-I’m not surprised that this has broken down into a fight derived from people defending their table saws. I wish it had evolved into a conversation about how to more effectively educate the masses who don’t know any better… before they bring their new toys home. Or how to build a better table saw that would be just as effective, but used in a different, safer way. I wonder what the statistics are on european style table saws? And is it possible that they’ve found a safer way?

-Woodworkers are a superstitious, cowardly lot, so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the dark ages. Dirty. Frumpy. And devoid of electrically powered tools.

-I think that operations as described should include the guards in the pictures. It’s easy to get access to the business end of the tool when the guard’s not in the way. Apologies to Marc, but the guard typically feels like it’s in the way. I’m sure aftermarket guards are better, but the stock ones generally beg to be removed for productivity’s sake. The motorcycle helmet equivalent of some of these guards would be excessively heavy, with a small, non-opening visor, and made of the cheapest stuff they could make it out of. Demonstrating techniques without the guard in place will only show the technique that will subsequently have to be modified later… so it doesn’t really teach much.

-I get that this thread is an old one by now. But given that the line of discussion is ongoing, how can we bring all woodworkers to the table and have a safety discussion without raising hackles, and ensuring productivity? Maybe we need to design a guard that will keep errant bloggers from thrusting the conversation into hazardous rhetoric? Injured feelings seem to halt all production when it comes to talking safety. Or, maybe those who come to the table should have the good woodworking sense to keep the parts of their opinions that they value clear of the rapidly spinning conversation, so that they don’t automatically feel injured or threatened by a well-made point.

That’s all the grenades I’ve got to throw for now… keep up the good work.

James

First of all shame on the man who sued the table saw manufacturer-I would be embarrassed if I were him. Secondly, double shame on the judge who didn’t throw the case out of court and file it under ‘stupidity’. I’m sorry but it seems today everyone seems to be able to sue for some ridiculous reason.

Another point Adam. You draw Norm Abrham into your discussion. Again Norm gets racked through the coals. At the beginning of every show he starts with safety-yet again, you are critical. Then a quick jab at the project behind him. He has motivated thousands of people to start woodworking. Instead of looking at him as a model, a man that has spent his life woodworking and still has all his digits-I wonder why Adam? Secondly, is your work any better?

I have no problem with anyone wanting to use hand tools alone or power tools. It is their choice to do so. For many, power machinery saves us time so we can use hand tools for the refinement of the work and bring our woodworking to a new level. To take your approach, perhaps we should have still have lumber yard pits with two sawyers pulling a large bowsaw to cut our rough lumber and then have a team of workers to go at them with scrub planes to start the flattening process.

This is absurd really. What happens in North America is that the end user assumes no responsibility-blame it on the manufacturer that they woke up and are completely oblivious to using a table saw, or any machinery, safely and effectively. They injure themselves and it’s the manufacturers responsibility that they were careless.

There is a book called an instruction manual with every new table saw purchase-perhaps the manufacturers should counter sue for not reading that manual.

We should not be trying to turn back the clock here but move forward and make it mandatory that new users be required to learn about table saw safety and use the tool effectively. Today it is the table saw, tomorrow the jointer, planer, router, bandsaw and whatever other piece of machinery. When does this stop? I for one love my cabinet saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, numerous routers, mortiser etc, just as much as my handtools.

And to finish up. Thank you Norm Abrham for filling my Saturday afternoons with his cheerful personality.

Dave

Took me a while to respond. Its been a busy week in my shop.

When you pose the question like that Adam, its very compelling. "Is this tool worth the risk for normal woodworkers?" Well first off, I have yet to meet a normal woodworker. Most of us are pretty weird. 🙂 But seriously though, I think the difficulty I have is with the assumption of an inherent danger in the tool. Proper training, safety gear, and a little common sense make the tablesaw no more dangerous than any other tool in the shop (just my opinion). But the problem is, many new woodworkers will purchase a tablesaw without training, safety gear, OR common sense. Obviously this is bad. We also have a situation where the veterans among us simply neglect to follow the rules they’ve been taught, or figure they haven’t been bitten yet so why bother, and whammo, they receive an injury.

Now I won’t pretend to be aware of any statistics on this, but can anyone tell me of an instance where a person was injured at the tablesaw while using a splitter, a guard, and a push stick? Bueller? Bueller? If it has happened, the frequency must be so low that its non-significant. So the real problem is that people are using the tool in an unsafe way.

There is a ton of info out there on tablesaw safety, but of course we have that classic issue of leading the horse to water. You could put a holographic safety video with dancing girls and a free slice of pie in every new tablesaw box and if its filed under the heading SAFETY, most folks will ignore it or simply "read it later". Not sure why people do that.

So to come back full circle, I don’t think the average home hobbyist NEEDS a tablesaw, as evidenced by the countless woodworkers who produce amazing work without one. And using a tablesaw without the guards is absolutely an unnecessary risk, no doubt about it. So if its safe to assume that most people will continue to use the saws in an unsafe way, then perhaps there IS a good justification for moving education toward tablesaw alternatives. But I am a fan of the tablesaw and I count on it daily for its speed, reliability, and versatility. So I will continue to champion its use (with safety in mind). But I certainly don’t see the harm in teaching alternatives.

Because of my own curiosity, I would love to start a forum thread that provides somewhat of a point/counter-point discussion on woodworking techniques. I could name something I depend on my tablesaw for, and then folks can chime in on some alternatives. Hmm…gears are turning….

Adam,
Like yourself, I do not have the answers to this safety issue. The problem, I think, lies not with the table saw but with the people who use it. One only has to look at a few episodes of “America’s Funniest Videos” or “StupidVideos” on the web to see examples of this. We seem bent on turning even the most mundane things into accidents. Most of the time, we are the ones at fault. I remember reading an article which made the comment something like “what is the thing most men say before they hurt themselves – ‘Watch this!” I also remember reading (but can’t place where, so don’t quote me) in an article on shop safety, that many of the men interviewed after a serious tools injury knew that what they were doing was not safe, but that they were either too much in a hurry to go through the proper setup, or thought that they could get by ‘just this one time’. I seem to remember Marc Spagnuolo, in one of his video podcasts, showed his bleeding hand after a mishap with either the jointer or router table where he tried to shortcut a process but got bit with the board catching on the blade and slamming the wood back into his palm, he showed the result to his hand as a warning to other woodworkers (Marc- if I remembered this incorrectly, please speak up and correct me.) Even FWW is guilty of publishing pictures of people doing things in an unsafe way (the one I recall most vividly is a guy cutting a dado in a very thin piece of stock – I think it was a window muntin – with no push stick and his fingers on inches away from a running blade). Although they often state that guards are removed for photo purposes only, a better approach may be to have their artist draw the operation so that a person can “see thru” the guard or push stick, and in that way there would be no doubt as to what is the safest way to do the operation.

Everywhere you look there seems to be warnings; does it really change the way we work? A while back, I bought a 6’ folding ladder; it had 9 different warning labels on it. I have often wanted to show up on the New Yankee Workshop just after Norm says “…and there is no more important safety rule than to wear these, safety glasses.” And, while pointing to my head, scream “No…There is no more important safety rule than to USE THIS, common sense, and the brains we were given.” Although I disagree with your response to my first post, when you stated, “I think guys don’t think much about their table saws”, (as most the woodworkers I have known are VERY aware of the dangers of a table saw or any power tool, and usually treat them with a great deal of respect), the problem is that we don’t always practice what we preach. Taking into account all that has, and is, being written on shop safety, how much more of it will actually change the way we do things. If your motive for the GWOT blog was to increase the awareness of table saw safety, and the alternatives to its use, than perhaps you, Chris Swartz, Glenn Huey, and the rest at PW could spearhead a collaboration with the other woodworking publication and key woodworking bloggers with surveys from actual woodworkers to find out what the REAL numbers are regarding woodworking injuries and how best to address the issue in a way that woodworkers will actually respond to, (articles that don’t just mention safety, but are dedicated to it; free videos on the proper use of power tools; free videos on alternatives, such as hand tools, to different power tools). Let’s encourage the woodworking press, along with woodworkers, to be the ones to take affirmative action on deciding what constitutes safe tools and safe shops, and not leave it to the lawyers and politicians.

A brief explanation on my using the term “REAL” numbers. Before I became a chiropractor, I worked at many different jobs, but most seem to include the table saw. At 16, I drove tractor for a farmer who had a table saw in his shed, I was a sawyer/carpenter in a camper factory, I built log homes in a ‘spiritual’ community where we snaked the logs down the mountain to the main roads with mules and we had our own portable saw mill with its 4’ fully exposed blade and a ShopSmith for woodworking, I worked as a carpenter on construction sites where there were miter saws and table saws for anyone to use, I worked in the meat industry for a short spell where there were band saws and sliding table saws to cut huge pieces of meat, I worked at a lumber yard where we used a panel saw and a table saw to cut wood for customers, I did a very short stent working in a frozen food processing plant where I sat in front of a twin-bladed table saw feeding it corn cobs (what, you thought they grew that way – with their ends cut off all even like that), and I even worked in a plumbing warehouse where we had an ancient benchtop table saw that I dusted off so I could make some shelves to store parts. The reason for this list is to show that there are a lot of “table saws” out there which have little to do with the woodworking hobbyist or professional furniture maker. So out of those 30,000 who were injured, just how many were woodworkers (and no, I don’t think the lumber industry as a whole should included in the woodworker’s numbers). I think it would be a great benefit to have a survey of WOODWORKERS who have been injured and when (as old table saws were horribly dangerous and shop safety was chiefly ignored as was illustrated in a couple of episodes by Roy Underhill – yes, THAT Roy Underhill [who recently led a chant at WIA of “Just say no to power tools” {good grief, now power tool users are being classed with cokeheads}] when in one episode he excitedly explored a steam powered small mill and in another, went through a window sash making shop where all the machines were belt-driven and most were over 100 years old. Now those were some scary machines and showed quite well just how far we have come in regards to safety). Anyway, these REAL numbers could help us as a woodworking community pin-point were the problem really is and how best to improve it.

As a final thought, I would like to make this suggestion; I would be EXTREMELY interested in seeing a quarterly magazine dedicate to making contemporary and period furniture using only hand tools (where you could even take glossy pictures of all those cool hand tools, just like they do with table saws). I am sure there are many serious hobbyist and professional woodworkers who fall into the power tool user class that would be thrilled with reading about and exploring how to expand their craft with professionally written articles on hand tools. I would make these suggestions: one, focus on the serious woodworker and not on how to make a CD/DVD holder that looks like something a cub scout could do, and two, leave out the stuff on how hand tools are superior because power tools are so horribly dangerous, and instead, focus on the peace, joy and pride that working with hand tools bring. I suspect you will win far more converts that way. And many might be surprised to learn that you can achieve a better surface and create better joints faster using only hand tools in many situations.

Gary,

Good comments. I don’t have all the answers. You’re right, I’m skeptical about the stats. Also, I liked what David said about band saws possibly being just as dangerous. I’m not sure if that’s true, but I think it’s interesting.

Only quibble with your comment is that I think there’s a difference between dedicating 30 seconds to saw safety and discussing risks and alternatives. I don’t think such a discussion would be appropriate every time some one wants to switch on a saw on a video blog. This really needs to be separate.

Case in point: For Jed, I’d be happy to stack my dado planes against table saw or routers for the creation of dados. I can make beautiful dados quickly and easily with a plane. If you were cutting 1000 dadoes a day, the physical effort and increased work time (doesn’t take much longer if at all) wouldn’t be worth while. But most of us are only cutting 6 or 8 dadoes if we are making furniture projects. A dado plane is a reasonable alternative to a router or table saw.

Last- I’m tangentially involved in real battles. I’m not interested in picking fights with fellow woodworkers or magazines. I thought my word choices were pithy. I get that maybe that maybe it wasn’t helpful. Could even be offensive. Certainly neither was my intention.

I’ve offered to write for FWW on several occasions. I don’t feel as though they have a period woodworker like me in their stable of regulars. I have not been allowed to contribute so far because of my work for PW. So I’ve recommended other woodworkers, volunteered to ghost write or help edit so that FWW could have period ww content. So far that hasn’t happened, but I’m fairly persistent and there’s obviously a market audience for authentic period work so I’m confident that will be just a mater of time.

I recall the Gary Rogowski article you mention. Gary is one of my favorite FWW authors, altho we have never met. That article ran in a Tools and Shops issue if I recall correctly and it was the first time (and I believe the last) those sentiments have been published anywhere. I’ve quoted that article many times. In that same issue however, were many other articles showing the table saw as the heart of the shop. Don’t have the issue in front of me, so feel free to check that and report back and tell me I’m full of it. I wrote an article about hand tool shops in response to FWW’s tools and shops articles which all basically say the same thing. Locate your table saw and build the shop around it.

What I’d like to see is a Tools and Shops issue (don’t care what magazine) with the headline, "Is the Table Saw Obsolete?" Then a series of article about woodworkers who do great work without one. I think such an issue would be a great service to woodworkers everywhere.

Adam

as a newbie in the arena, I am very interested in the above discussion. I was given a tablesaw by a neighbor, and I spent weeks reading up on tablesaw safety before I fired it up. On a limited minister’s budget, I would not be able to replace it with a Bandsaw, and even if I could, I need it for cutting dados. No matter how healthy my respect for the tablesaw, which is considerable, it pales in comparison to my respect for my router, handheld or otherwise secured. I saw what a router could do to an inattentive teenager’s thigh in high school and have no desire to recreate the experience, so I will be cutting dados on the tablesaw, taking as many precautions as possible. A tablesaw is no more dangerous than a circ saw or a router, or a chainsaw, and all are equally damaging to soft tissue.Villifying the tablesaw is like villifying pitbulls.they are not in themselves evil.When one characterizes them as such, You leave out utterly the context and, as you pointed out in talking about puffy shirts, context is everything.

handtools vs machinery (machinist) . Everybody can be trained to do just one trick according the late John Brown (smoking in heaven).

I take criticism seriously and allow people to be critical of me here.

I’m not lobbying congress for tough new anti-table saw legislation. And I like to think i have no "bully pulpit", no influence over woodworkers.

But the guys who accuse me of being what I call the "Puffy Shirt Police" (I’m not trying to force anyone to do anything, I simply advocate for alternatives) have a point. I think we really do read magazines and try what we learn there. The images of shops really do influence us and that’s exactly the point here. Where hand tools and hand tool shops have been shown (not often) they have been influential. The other 99% of articles show table saws and their use.

When I shoot photos, I am very careful of backgrounds, the esthetics, and any implied narrative messages that might be interpretted. That’s the chief reason I wear the puffy shirt. It’s not just decorative. It’s part of the message i seek to communicate; I try to represent 18th c sensibilities as accurately as possible, not my interpretation of 18th c sensibilities or what I think may be useful to you. I leave it to you to sort out the usefrul from the ridiculous.

I’m looking for other authors to do the same vis a vis table saws. If it’s not that important to you, don’t glamorize it by placing it proiminently in photos. Tell us what you have in your heart in your photos.

My sense is this saw is probably not worth the risks it poses. Read any magazine knowing little about woodworking and you’ll be left with the impression that the first tool you need is a table saw. Even if you just look at the pictures. I recall that being my first impression. If that’s true, so be it. But I suspect it isn’t true. It’s certainly not so prominently depicted in European woodworking magazines.

I’m not convinced I’m right about about a great many things. I could be all wet here too. But my wish is that this gets discussed. I hope my invective filled post lights fire under some guys. It has been my experience (despite the fact that I don’t believe it) that what gets written here shows up elsewhere in 6 months time. I hope that’s the case this time too.

Adam

Peter –
Some of the editorial ideas of showing possible alternatives are fine. Fine Woodworking has done several of these for dovetailing and making cabinet door and hand cutting tenons versus cutting with a tablesaw and dado stack.
I see things perhaps more literal than you do – when someone whos business is writing clear and concise like it is for Adam goes for the case
"There are people in this world who have to use table saws. But I’m not convinced any of us are among them"
"Let’s put table saws on the endangered species list. Not illegal, not extinct. Endangered."
I take him at his word. the only way to get to the ‘endangered list’ is through legislation, and some Nanny operation deciding that X is too dangerous, but Y is ok.

If we honestly believe that it is up to the individual, then it should be just that… and not driven by folks fundamentally from the "Lets have Zero Power tools" camp decide for me.

Steve,
you’re welcome!

David,
quite right to point out the possible statistical skewing when comparing accident data… (It’s more likely I’ll die in a car accident than a motorbike ’cause I don’t ride a bike)
Most of the bandsaw accidents I’ve seen were in the meat industry (I don’t know what you call "resawing" pork etc. is called)

Cheers,

Peter

Hey Dave,

although Adam’s wording may be rather harsh and emotion induced, I think the message is that maybe we need to rethink how and why we do things. e.g. I want to make a laminated workbench (Roubo style from C Schwarz’s posts on popwood) Do I need a jointer + planer + a tablesaw and jigs to prep and cut the joinery? Some other method? It would be silly to attempt it with a chisel exclusively, but there are alternatives.

Each can do as he/she sees fit, but my untabulated experience is that tablesaws are one of the more "accident prone" machines in the shop (after angle grinders). I see plenty of injuries, some irrelevant others life-changing.

Do you need…? (fill blank as appropriate) Only you can answer that question for your case, but it does seem fair to call attention to the pros and cons of the machinery to make what is known as an "informed decision".

Cheers,
Peter

Marc,

The question I have for you is (and I’m asking for your recommendation for somebody else) "Is this tool worth the risk for normal woodworkers?" Of course everybody gets to decide for themselves. You’ve been around this thing a long time, not unlike my brother Steve. He’s a professional cabinetmaker, and boat builder. He’s also a really fine guitarist. So I’m really looking to you experts to tell me, not vice versa,

Like you, I meet and shake hands with many woodworkers. Hundreds and hundreds of woodworkers at least. And a lot of those hand shakes feel weird because those guys are missing fingers. And those are just the right hands. I suspect this occurs to more left hands, the hand used to move the waste away from the blade. These guys are older, seem experienced, obviously intelligent. Didn’t Sam Maloof lose some finger tips?

It seems to me Festool is a safer way to handle sheet goods. And these injuries always seem to involve small pieces, probably better cut on at the band saw any way. Can you push an 8′ board across a band saw? Do we need special outfeed tables? I know band saws have fences.

Instead of looking at this like we’re trying to hurt the table saw manufacturers, maybe this is an opportunity to create some new safer tool. A band table saw. With fences (I know they have them now) and larger tables.

Marc, I love your safety week, be happy to write something on this. I tried to join you and talk about hand tool safety last year. Wrote several posts on everything from chisel safety to appropriate foot wear. No obligation for you to participate here, but I think your expertise would be welcome. Love to see a video blog from you on alternatives.

Adam

I don’t really want to dive into this rather heavy topic on a Sunday morning. Shoot, I haven’t even had my coffee yet! But I have to admit I got a little giddy when Adam mentioned my name. I hope we have a chance to actually meet this year at WIA!

Anyway, I would love to see more talk of tool alternatives. I usually do recommend that folks use their bandsaws for most of their rips. With a good blade in place, its not only safer but has a thinner kerf and makes less dust.

But I would have a real hard time getting rid of my tablesaw. Promoting the tablesaw as the "heart of the workshop" may be a bit over-done, but in my world, its true. As a person who tries to incorporate hand tools into every project, I would still find myself a little lost without my tablesaw. Let’s forget about simple cross-cuts and rips. How about its versatility for joinery and adaptability for thousands of jigs. Not saying these things can’t be done with other tools. Just saying they are done very efficiently on a tablesaw. And that’s the reason I would have trouble with an all out effort to remove tablesaws from our shops. Again, let’s educate the heck out of people so they can make smart choices. Let’s get some serious functional safety gear on these tools and let’s show people how to use them. And I should probably correct David who said I don’t use a guard. I have had the HTC Brett guard on my saw for a couple of years now. There was a period when I didn’t use a guard simply because the stock guard was crap. The Brett Guard, however, covers the blade in a way that compliments my workflow and really makes me feel safer. Of course, my riving knife is installed 100% of the time (with the exception of certain specialty cuts). Anyway….

Now that 30,000/3000 stat is pretty scary sounding. But the one thing we don’t know is who these people were. How many of them were hobbyists? How many of them were working on a cheap contractor saw on a job site with no guards in place? If a large percentage were the latter, all the education, articles and blog posts in the world won’t help someone who isn’t out there looking for the information. I wonder if anyone has any statistics specifically pertaining to small shop woodworkers.

So I am all for more safety but I am also for choice. I don’t see my tablesaw as a 40-tooth monster just waiting to attack me when I least expect it. But I do believe that the tablesaw is a tool deserving of an enormous amount of respect to ensure my personal safety (much like a vehicle, a lawn mower, a firearm, a car jack, etc…). And with those safety-precautions in place, my tablesaw is a tool that absolutely deserves the square footage it consumes in my shop. But I certainly respect anyone who chooses not to use one for whatever their reasons are.

Hey Adam, any chance I can get you to write an article on tablesaw alternatives for our next Safety Week? That would be AWESOME!

Gary,

You’re right. I think I got carried away with "clever" rhetoric (I’m putting that in quotes because maybe it wasn’t so clever). I played up the whole GWOT stuff just to make my point. I think guys don’t think much about their table saws. I’m just looking to raise their consciousness and hoping to attract some other ww press types to join up. So I apologize. I offended you and that’s not my goal here. We can drop the GWOT rhetoric.

I found some website called Science Daily. I don’t know if it’s a front for Saw Stop or some hoax. What they said is that 30,000 Americans hurt themselves on their table saws each year. Of them, 10% or 3000 people lose fingers or more.

If true, a good portion of those may well be wood working magazine, web forum, and blog readers that we can reach. I think we owe it to them to remind them that this saw, above all others, has this safety record. And that if they are concerned about it, they can do x,y, and z. That’s not exactly the holy crusade I made it out to be. It’s really just good public safety information.

Adam

I believe the discussion is important. I have known a few people with missing digits due to a table saw mishap. In each case it was not the saws fault. The operators used the saw without the guard in place. But I can’t throw stones – I also use mine unguarded. I do use proper work hold downs and push sticks, and I have all ten fingers still attached. I am just VERY careful. I respect the saw, but I do not fear it.

Due to a repetitive motion injury in my elbows, to remove my table saw from my shop would probably end the hobby for me. I simply cannot rip with a hand saw for any length of time without enduring a large amount of pain. I still do a lot of work by hand, always mindful of my elbows, but the table saw is vital for me to enjoy the hobby at the level I desire. I realize my band saw is a viable alternative, but my table saw is very good at what I use it for. Again, I am VERY careful.

Yahoo,

You are misreading me. There’s no hand tool versus power tool here. I’m suggesting, tho admittedly ignorant, that the band saw may be a better and safer way to saw wood. This isn’t a hand versus power thing. I’m advocating for a different power tool. I’m doing it to help guys who use power tools. I’m not looking for converts in my plan for hand tool domination. Guys (okay Schwarz) kid me about stuff like that. To quote the 20th c philosopher Austin Powers "Hey that’s not my bag, baby."

Gerry,

We’re human being and we make mistakes. There’s no holier than thou side to this. If there are safer alternatives, we should know all about them. I read a lot of woodworking magazines. Even Norm talks about shop safety on every show. But what i NEVER hear from any source is "Pros use this tool, but it’s expensive and it’s dangerous. You can use this tool instead. To make this work for you, you’ll have to do x,y,and z"

That’s all I want.
Adam

Adam,
Enough is Enough. I am sickened by all this "hand tool vs. power tool" mentality. It is starting to have the same verbiage and logic of hate groups and religious fanatics. We are all woodworkers and the method we prefer should not be denigrated by fellow woodworkers. No one is denying power tools can be dangerous if used improperly, but if we were to follow your logic then we should stop driving simply because other people are getting killed on the roads. If you are uncomfortable with a table saw than by all means don’t use it, but don’t start ranting about how we need to "route these tools from the basements where they hide and bring them to justice."
It is sad that you would use Norm Abram in you argument against table saws as he is a master CARPENTER, not a furniture maker. His work has rarely gone beyond that of what you would find in Walmart, but it is not simply because he uses power tools. The vast majority of all finely crafted furniture, both modern and reproductions, is created, at least in part – the table saw included – with power tools.
Should we all reject Shaker furniture, since they were the ones credited with bring the evils of the table saw into being? Do you honestly believe that the majority of 18th century woodworkers would have turned their noses up at a modern power tool. By all means, write of the virtues and joys of hand tools; I, for one, rejoice over the hand tool revival, but don’t try to turn it into some kind of religion by condemning those who enjoy doing it a little differently than yourself.

Paul,
I don’t run the magazine (yet), so all I can do is lobby, but yes, you have the right idea. PW isn’t going to throw away their table saw(s), but they don’t have to appear prominently with the sexy tool porn lighting.

You all know how magazines and photos in magazines work. They make things look deceptively inviting. Even when you are not looking at an advertisement, smart people who take the pictures are trying to represent some narrative. I do it. My shop is the basement of my crappy split level, not an 18th c wood shop. Had I left the cinder block walls, and flickering fluorescent lights, you would feel differently about my work, including my writing. My pictures, poor as they are, are evocative in some small way.

Real table saws in real shops are typically covered in dust, with piles of saw dust under them. Glue spills and stains marr the table. With the exception of Kelly Mehler’s shop, I’ve never seen a table saw that looks in any way inviting. I find the noise of the cutting gives me tunnel vision. Other loud noises do this to me as well.

Showing these tools for what they are is an important first step, Paul. So yes, it would be my goal to stop "euphemizing" images of table saws in the PW shop. Wish me luck with that.

All,
I think there are folks who use these tools safely. But people who use them know the risks they pose. My guess is, I can get pros like Glen Huey to participate in GWOT. I’m fairly certain he knows all the power tool alternatives, how much longer they take, all the ramifications etc. Understanding the issue 360 degrees around is really what we want.

Adam

The very best quote I’ve ever read about tablesaw safety was from James Krenov: "Exercise caution, but not undue fear". I saw that to myself whenever I use my tablesaw. I heartily agree that alternatives to the great screaming monster ought to be promoted.

I would definitely add the power jointer to this campaign. Both my father and grandfather lost tips of fingers in their jointers. It’s a one-trick pony that can be replaced by a limited set of hand planes. My power jointer has already tasted human flesh (it was my grandfather’s) and I’m worried that it wants more. 😉 I haven’t used it in a year or so since I’ve been trying to do all my jointing with hand planes. It takes longer for me at my current ability level, but that will change….

I see a big can of worms that is not only open, but spilled all over the floor of the shop. (that is a slippery safety hazard by the way) There are some good comments here Adam but I think I see the nobility in your statement that media should make an attempt to popularize alternative methods and write/shoot/speak about more projects that don’t require the table saw. I wrote a post several months ago about abstaining from my table saw and jointer to see how my work would change. I didn’t miss either of them really and could see many alternatives that didn’t just involve hand tools. I did not however, write about any of those revelations. I think this is something I will take to heart and see if we can at least get people thinking about options instead of the knee jerk "gotta get a table saw first" reaction.

I’m not interested in removing choices, just as I said. Nor do I want to put anyone out of business.

The argument that we can hurt ourselves with hand tools is a hollow one. Lots and lots of guys are loosing pieces of themselves on table saws an jointers. These are devastating accidents that no amount of stitches can fix.

The accidents happen in a flash to even experienced guys. Ask Kelly Mehler what he thinks. I’d like to see him interviewed about power tool safety.

We can say all power tool accidents are user error. But there’s something particularly unforgiving about these high speed blades that can take your fingers.

Not looking for ban. Just frank discussions about the risks, the injuries, the disabilities that result and the alternatives. We need to stop the "Table Saw Magic" myths and it needs to stricken from the "Essential Tools" lists. FWW’s "win a shop full of tools" should no longer include a table saw.

I think you are right on that its importance should be downplayed instead of promoted for home woodworkers. There are cheaper, safer alternatives for most types of cuts. Like handsaws.

Unfortunately, hobby woodworkers are patterning their purchases after production shops. In part, this is because most magazines have to sell themselves twice. Once to the reader and once to the advertisers.

As was mentioned, a great part of the problem is running saws without the safety equipment installed. Another part is that hobby woodworkers often end up making some weird cuts that big shops don’t.

Also, a lot of people work with plywood frequently and that is where a tablesaw "shines." Of course there are alternatives, but they aren’t as versatile or are even more dangerous- like a hand-held circular saw.

I think I read the same post as you. I genuinely feel for the gentleman and can’t even imagine being in the same situation. I hope he recovers quickly and as fully as possible. It’s really a terrible thing that happened to him.

However, reading a little more into HOW the accident happened, I don’t think that the saw was to blame (not that he ever implied that it was, just to be clear). From the gentleman’s description of the accident, it sounds as if the guard had been removed from the saw. I can’t see how it could have happened with the guard in place, even the cheap factory guard. It also sounds like the cut being made did not require the guard’s removal, so there really should have been no reason to have it off.

I like choices myself, so I’m not ready to declare all out war on any type of tool, whether for the home shop or not. I do agree with you that no home hobby woodworker NEEDS a table saw. For that matter, no one NEEDS a jointer, planer, bandsaw, drill press, dust collector, etc. either. All of these tools can be dangerous if not used properly. However, just because people get hurt from using the tools carelessly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the choice to use them safely. We all need to be responsible for our own actions and not place the blame on someone else (the manufacturer for not including flesh detecting technology or the magazines for saying the tool is a must have).

Hand tools are no different. While it would take some effort and determination to completely remove an appendage with one, they can still seriously injure and handicap a woodworker. Last year at WIA, while helping in the SAPFM Hand Tool Olympics, Alan Turner (PFW was in the adjacent booth) and I had to stop numerous participants several times during the dovetail cutting event because they were holding the wood in one hand and paring with a sharp chisel with the other hand…directly toward the hand holding the wood. It doesn’t take much imagination to guess what could have happened had one of them slipped. We certainly could have seen a serious accident with the potential for permanent damage. After stopping them, explaining what could happen and showing them how to secure the stock to the bench properly, thankfully, there were no accidents.

But chisels don’t come with guards, labels, warnings or instructions. I like to think they don’t need to, but when I see how some folks try to use them, I wonder if there should be. Table saws (and other power tools) on the other hand have huge warning labels, multiple guards and several pages in the front of the instruction manual warning how to properly use the tool and to never use the tool without the guard in place. Still, people remove the guard or never install it in the first place. This is not the fault of the tool manufacturer, the magazines or anyone else but the person performing the action.

With that said, I do very much agree with you that it would benefit everyone if alternative methods to the table saw were popularized. Not because there is anything wrong with table saws (when used properly and safely), but because budget and space minded home woodworkers need to know that there are better, cheaper, safer alternatives to dropping several thousands of dollars and needing a shop the size of a small warehouse to get started in woodworking. Choices are a good thing for everyone involved.